Yet more on Eating the tithe

 To see the context of this post you need to read the others in the series as well as the excellent comments by Helio on each of them.

Thanks Helio,

Again you give a very thoughtful response, thank you. However we are in danger of losing the main point of the original post – feasting in the presence of the Lord. But I still need  to deal with the particular points you bring up. I will deal with these after each quote I take from your post.

I am answering this as a separate post as it was to long for a comment on a comment which was limited to about  4000 characters

On one hand you say that “our financial giving is to be generous (absolutely more than a tithe) and given willingly and joyfully”. On the other hand you mention that “there can be no guilt associated with our giving.” I feel there’s a conflict in those statements.

In my opinion the issue of guilt is associated with the law. The law requires the tithing as a requirement and that’s where the compulsion comes from. But again, I stand by 2 Cor 9:8:

“Each one must do just as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.”

The moment you set a minimum amount to giving you are indirectly adding a requirement. It’s like saying “you are free to give as long as it is more than the tithe”. I am not so sure about this type of freedom.

I obviously have no argument with Paul’s call for cheerful giving but there is also the matter of  generosity as seen in the wider context of your quote:

2 Corinthians 9:6-11 NIV
[6] Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. [7] Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. [8] And God is able to bless you abundantly, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work. [9] As it is written: “They have freely scattered their gifts to the poor; their righteousness endures forever.” [10] Now he who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will also supply and increase your store of seed and will enlarge the harvest of your righteousness. [11] You will be enriched in every way so that you can be generous on every occasion, and through us your generosity will result in thanksgiving to God.

Generosity is not being shown if the giving of a particular Christian is only 10%. Surely everyone can afford more than this irrespective of their circumstances. One of the reasons people do not give generously is that they have been taught that giving according to your means involves considering themselves first rather than the Lord, and others, first. There is a poverty mentality in many people that convinces them that if they are on a very low income, or social service payments, that they cannot give to others. This is a major problem in our society where there has developed a dependence mentality. I write this as one who only has the aged pension to live on, yet gets great joy from giving generously.

Why are we setting the law as a starting point for our actions?

I am not setting the Law as the starting point, as tithing was in force well before the Law as I mentioned earlier.

The comparison between tithing and circumcision that you make is an invalid comparison. 

Circumcision is certainly a matter of the Law and showed the separation between the Israelites and the other nations. This form of showing separation is certainly not required of us as the point of physical circumcision had now been replaced by circumcision of the heart. I have written much on this before, and will again, but it is a distraction in this discussion.

Tithing is a matter for ALL people, Christian or not. It is just that we are meant to be faithful and recognise our tenancy of this earth which is owned by God.  Humankind has been given this earth to ‘rule over’, or manage on behalf of the owner, God. This creation mandate has limits, of course, and everyone is held responsible to uphold the mandate to look after creation. The parable of the tenants, mentioned earlier, is but one of the New Testament indications of this.

So my argument is that tithing is fundamentally different from matters of the Law. Tithing is a token of the generosity required from us for the earth we have been given by God.

The law brings bondage but we believers are urged to walk in the freedom that Jesus has given us. (Gal 5:1) We are encouraged to walk by the Spirit. Those who are led by the Spirit, are not under the law (Gal 5:18). The law is a tutor to bring us to Christ, but now that we have found Him there is a new way of living.

Remember the entire law is summed in love for God and love for others. It is only through the Holy Spirit that we are empowered to satisfy the underlying motives of the law of God instead of being tangled up with the written code of the law.

I totally agree with you. Jesus lifted the Law to a much higher level.

Matthew 5:17-22 NIV
[17] “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. [18] For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. [19] Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. [20] For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven. [21] “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' [22] But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, 'Raca,' is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.

The law is now on our hearts and we automatically want to keep the law in its fullness, out of love for Jesus, as empowered by the Holy Spirit. It is no longer just ticking off the matters of the law, but a passion to be like Jesus in all things: true love, not forced obedience.

I have heard from people in church leadership justifying their badgering people to give on the fact that unless they compel people to give the congregation would not do it otherwise.

I have also seen behaviour like this. There can be no justification for the behaviour you describe. The motivation for this behaviour comes from the ‘need’ that many pastors feel to increase their offerings, and protect their own income. This is a further reason for a total change in the way ministry is supported. That is the wider debate about the way we do church. We still have the pattern of a Constantinian Church, rather than a Christian Church. You know my passion for this  and this is the reason for this blog site.

As Paul talks about circumcision I also like to refer to tithing:

See my comments above. Circumcision is certainly a matter of the Law, whereas tithing comes from Creation and not the Law. The two spring from totally different bases. This has been abused in the past in England and elsewhere where he local council levied the tithe for the upkeep of the 'parish', which we would call the municipality. We now do this by different means, council rates. This practice was abused in medievael times, but that has nothing to say about our present discussion. In fact there could be an argument for LIMITING taxes and rates to 10%!!!!! But that is not for now and could be far too controversial to pursue.

Let’s see what happened in the Ananias and Sapphira case: 

You comments here are spot on. The matter at issue was the fact that they lied to the Holy Spirit and so were judged for that, not for what they gave, or ‘should’ have given. I wonder what would happen in many churches if the Holy Spirit acted likewise now. People think they are being generous but, in many cases, are only offering a ‘tip’ to God.

One can’t force someone to be generous – this has to be the result of a transformed life by the power of Jesus Christ. One of the most astonishing and glorious things I’ve found in Christian living is seeing believers responding to the law of the Spirit written in their hearts and minds and not to the law written on tablets of stone. How refreshing to see believers responding willingly and living according to their new nature. What is the new nature? Isn’t it love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness and self-control? Those who live in such a way do not need the law for they fulfil those requirements right from the heart.

I totally agree with you. Let us all encourage people to live a sold out life to God under the power of the Holy Spirit. Jesus has shown the greatest generosity to us by His selfless life, His atoning death, His glorious bodily resurrection, and His ascension to the Father so that the glorious Holy Spirit could now live in all of us who have been truly ‘born again’ into the new life of Jesus.

Thank you Helio for your faithfulness and example in our midst. All glory and praise to Him who was, and is, and is to come.

I will upload a separate post soon to bring us back to the initial issue I raised.